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November 26, 2008

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The Gay Numbers

Biblical arguments for slavery and Jim Crow were a part of the basis for racial discrimination. People keep trying to complicate bigotry. It's not complicated. There will always be rationalizations root in religion or social norms for them. That does not change the fact it is still discrimination. These arguments have happened over and over again with different oppressed groups in the U.S. Religious arguments are part and parcel- read a book by Prof. Gomes - a black gay theologian from Harvard called 'the Good book' which tracks the ways in which Biblical text has been used against women, gays, blacks and other groups.

Virtually everything that's been written about gays was also once said of blacks. Include the religious belief argument. Check out the history of both the KKK and the more benign Bob Jones University.

You also left out the most salient issue- human rights. Equality is about human rights, and not whether one is conservative or liberal. Until this conversation is understood in that context, the anger will not be understood.

xtn

Thanks for delving into this, AJ, and for attempting to separate the difference between one person choosing to express his troubling beliefs, and the troubling nature of the outcome.

By forcing Rich out, we now no longer have an individual choice about how to personally respond to the situation. That decision has been made for us.

The Gay Numbers

Your choice is based on no consequences? That's a fascinating definition of choice in a free society. So we are forced to pay for your choices too. Not just that you have them. But the moral obligation is for us to support it. Wow. Just wow. You people are scary.

miguelito

No one would argue that Raddon--or anyone else--is not entitled to his religious beliefs. But that doesn't mean that he's entitled to write his religious beliefs into the constitution and deny equal rights to others. We live in a society that guarantees religious freedom but also separates church and state and guarantees that no set of religious beliefs can be forced on everyone. Raddon clearly doesn't understand that. Gay people are not trying to take any legal rights away from Raddon or any other people of faith, but Raddon is trying to take legal rights away from gay people. (In fact, he has succeeded in doing so.) You seem to be defending Raddon's right to take away our rights. Huh? Can't you see that our attempt to defend our rights is not the same kind of thing as his attempt to take our rights away? Of course, there's room for people of faith in a diverse community. But when some people of faith attack other people, they should should not be surprised when those other people retaliate. And no one should be surprised or in the least bit outraged that gay people do not want to give money to their oppressors.

Peter Bowen

I have to agree with the person who wrote, "People keep trying to complicate bigotry. It's not complicated." When people say things like "one person choosing to express his troubling beliefs," it just makes bigotry something it isn't. When, for example, is someone actively involved in using the state to deprive another group of equal rights expressing "trouble beliefs." What is the belief here? Mormonism or homophobia, because there was nothing in Prop 8 that was about asserting the rights of Mormons to practice their faith.

Peter Bowen

I have to agree with the person who wrote, "People keep trying to complicate bigotry. It's not complicated." When people say things like "one person choosing to express his troubling beliefs," it just makes bigotry something it isn't. When, for example, is someone actively involved in using the state to deprive another group of equal rights expressing "trouble beliefs." What is the belief here? Mormonism or homophobia, because there was nothing in Prop 8 that was about asserting the rights of Mormons to practice their faith.

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